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The Father: Truth Teller, The Mother: Aya granny, Daughter 1: Najma, Daughter 2: HNK.

Tuesday, June 07, 2005

Moslawi News

During the last week, there was instruction in Nineveh TV to the Taxi drivers.
This instructions include:

1-For every taxicab working inside the town, the driver MUST remove the cover of the rear luggage box. That means the cover should be removed completely, and the cars move in the streets without rear covers.

2-For every taxicab working outside the town, at the external and highway roads, the drivers should open the rear luggage box when he reach the check point near the city, and keep it open as long as his car is inside the town. He can shut the rear luggage box only when he leave the town at the check point out side the city.

These instructions were only to the Governorate of Nineveh and the city of Mosul, in order to make searching the cars (specially the taxicab) more easily.

Today in the TV, there was American patrol in the Downtown, stopping the taxicabs which doesn't remove the rear luggage box, and make them remove that rear luggage box in front of the TV camera.

Yesterday the Governor deputy of Mosul announce that they are going to dig a trench around the city of Mosul leaving 9 openning or Gates seriously guarded to prevent the entry of bombed cars and the terrorist to the city. The trench will be ready in a couple of weeks.

74 Comments:

Blogger strykerdad said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

6/07/2005 02:53:00 PM

 
Blogger programmer craig said...

Hmmm... I'm not going to touch Styrkerdad's comment, it looks radioactive :)

Those measures all look like good ideas to me, Truthteller. How do you feel about them?

6/07/2005 03:58:00 PM

 
Blogger waldschrat said...

The idea of digging a ditch around Mosul seems to ignore the possibility of disturbing or destroying archeological sites! This is particularly true if the ditch is deep enough to actually stop cars. Obviously a ditch will not stop pedestrian traffic. Also, a ditch would tend to disrupt irrigation systems!

It seems the act of desperate people, and poorly advised!

Truthteller, did the TV say how deep and wide this ditch might be?

6/08/2005 02:38:00 AM

 
Blogger strykerdad said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

6/08/2005 10:16:00 AM

 
Blogger programmer craig said...

Having a bad day, Waldshrat?

6/08/2005 10:36:00 AM

 
Blogger Truth teller said...

strykerdad

I answered all your question honstly and frankly. But when I read your comment.
i.e. "The Mosul authorities should consult TT before embarking on any such efforts as he could save them the time--don't they know American forces are planting many of the IEDs and murdering all those women and children? Foolish people are those who would seek to achieve anything positive."

I delete every thing because I feel you don't deserve the time I spend in responding to your request.

6/08/2005 10:48:00 AM

 
Blogger strykerdad said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

6/08/2005 11:13:00 AM

 
Blogger Truth teller said...

waldschrat

"did the TV say how deep and wide this ditch might be?"

No, They only said it is deep and wide enough to prevent any car from passing it.

6/08/2005 11:59:00 AM

 
Blogger strykerdad said...

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6/08/2005 12:54:00 PM

 
Blogger Hitech Luddite said...

TT have you met any American soldiers in any capacity other than during a sweep of an area looking for someone who has done something like place an IED or take a shot at them? You seem very willing to take gossip and hersay as the truth. Maybe if you talked with some of the soldiers you could more accurtely gauge the quality of people they are and be in a better position to judge what they are capable of doing. If your fear of reprisal from street thugs or radical groups hold you back from doing this then you start to understand the problem these troops face trying to protect the innocent people.

6/08/2005 01:46:00 PM

 
Blogger IRAQ said...

Strykerdad
let me answer some of your questions:

first of all lets clear some misunderstanding in your side. Mosul until the 1950is was a small town with walls around it and the residents were divided into three groups Arabs, Christians , and Jews and the total number of Christians and Jews combined was more than the Arabs, THERE WAS NO KURDISH IN MOSUL.
After that the city start to grow and new immigrants start to come from surrounding areas and some of them were Kurdish and the city grow west and south then a cross the river in the east banks of the Tigris.

The Iraqi governments at all the times had a policy that when a land become inside the city limit it will be confiscated ( the land owner will get some money but it will be always less that what the land worth) and then divide the land into small lots and distribute them to public workers and government employee those who don't own there own homes, and in Saddam time he start giving land to his soldiers and officers and the families of the killed soldiers plus government employee.

for the other allegation that many Kurdish were kicked out of Mosul, I can find it not accurate because they have a majority in many areas in the east bank of Mosul and they live in homes that they own and live there for many many years.

As why many Moslawis are not pro American occupation, I think the word "American occupation" are enough answer to the question, but in other way there was a big trend from the new Mosul Immigrants to volunteer to the Army to become officers and I think that Mosul had the largest number of officers in the Iraqi Army but none was in high ranks.

but strykerdad could you give me a single Sunni Arab blogger that is pro American?? there is none

because the others gained from the occupation and they believe that living under the occupation for a wail will worth the future gain that they will get from it and they could put behind the national Bride feeling that put many others in crossing path with America and I can't deny that Many Sunni feel that they lost too much because of the occupation.

Sir I am an Iraqi and I am not Sunni, or Shiia, or Kurdish and I don't want any Iraqi to use these titles.

6/08/2005 01:55:00 PM

 
Blogger strykerdad said...

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6/08/2005 03:06:00 PM

 
Blogger strykerdad said...

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6/08/2005 03:58:00 PM

 
Blogger John said...

It is becoming increasingly a source of amazement and to some extent amusement to me to see how these "strykerdads" of the world suddenly have become historical and political experts and authorities on Iraqi society! Dad says, "Every history of Mosul I have read", no doubt because junior now finds himself patrolling the streets of Mosul in a Stryker. So dad wakes up one morning and says I'm going to make it my business to learn everything I possibly can about Mosul.

Junior is there risking his life to free the world from tyranny, save Iraqis from themselves and protect themselves from an Islamic takeover of the world. Now dad debates people living in Mosul and professes to be more informed about their country and environment than people who have lived there all their lives!

Pathetic one might say! A source of irritation for someone such as TruthTeller! After all, all we're taking about here is a breeder of soldiers whose progeny happened to be posted in Mosul by his political masters!

A man who likely never even knew Mosul existed before his baby grew up to be one of Americas finest and was sent of to defend America! Now he says shit like, "My interest is due in part because I am increasingly persuaded that Iraq should be made up of at least two semi autonomous regions with Mosul being part of what will be a New Kurdistan."

I'm sure if I were you Truth Teller, it would at least cause me to grind my teeth. Dads transition from PTA member or soccer coach, to Middle Eastern political expert shouldn't be imposed on anyone let alone a doctor who is so undeserving of the breeders drivel! Maybe when junior comes home he'll refocus on electing his next republican congressman!

Until then, I'm sure he's going to contine his research and share his final solution for Iraq! Ewwww I find it repulsively skin crawling, what a patient man you must be Truth, to deal with the occupier is one thing, but to have to endure their breeders moronic quasi-intellectual apologism must be mind numbing! Its most likely a defense mechanism to lend credibility to his sons righteous cause, in case he's brought home in a body bag and dad suddenly shows remorse over it being such a senseless waste of life! cause he'll never express a tear over the death of Iraqis at the hands of his heroic son or boys like him!

6/08/2005 04:08:00 PM

 
Blogger IRAQ said...

srykerdad
I don't know what history you read probably you could give me some links to your readings, but in reality there were no Kurdish in Mosul valley through all history and the valley to the east and north east of Mosul is inhibated by more than 30 Chaldean and Assyrians villeges and small towns (they lived there for the past 5000 years) and the nearest Kurdish dominated area is called shikhan and it is 20 miles to the north east of Mosul.
plus when WWI ended the Mosul willaiat was still under the Uttoman control and they were forced out later as you said but nobody said it was Kurdish!!!

6/08/2005 05:04:00 PM

 
Blogger Moron99 said...

John, I don't think anybody knows what went on in Iraq during Saddm's time very far beyond their family and community. Saddam divided them into little groups and fed them only the information that he wanted. If something came through radio, like the gassing, then he would make a story and prevent any contradictions from spreading. Whereas each individual, such as Truth teller, can very accurately talk about Mosul there doesn't seem to be anyone who is familiar about the nation as a whole. If there is, I haven't run across their blog. Maybe Saddam's trial will bring it all out at once and the people of Iraq can begin to see themselves as part of something larger.

6/08/2005 05:31:00 PM

 
Blogger strykerdad said...

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6/08/2005 07:05:00 PM

 
Blogger John said...

Well now Moron as refreshingly honest as this comment may appear to be on the surface, " John, I don't think anybody knows what went on in Iraq during Saddam's time very far beyond their family and community." It would appear to be disingenuous at best! I would guess what you meant by nobody knowing would only apply to Iraqis themselves! People such as TruthTeller. Whereas seuthsayers such as yourself and SODAD would proclaim an intimacy of knowledge concerning Iraqi history, its people, religious custom, political leaders and dictators that is worthy of a postdoctorate dissertation.

This level of chauvinism always seems to work well for war apologists, especially those contributing family members who are put in harms way! Its a tiresome tradition of countries who invade other countries to define the people they invade and conquer as not knowing whats best for them! The conquerer someone has to show them the light and lead them out of the dark ages into an enlightened new world as defined by America. One of the truly nauseating and obnoxious aspects of this behaviour is on this occasion your talking to a doctor. A highly educated man who has lived his entire life in Iraq, perhaps Mosul, yet this Dad of a soldier (perhaps a handyman) sits back and prophesizes about how Truths city should be partioned or turned over to an independent Kurdish state under the watchful eye of the occupier!

Time for an analogy. It would be something like a rapist telling me, the father, how much gratification they derived from raping my daughter and much better off she is under his care!

At some point I would love to do an historical analysis of your city while soldiers from my country, perhaps my son were parading themselves up and down your street. Rousting your neighbours, raiding your homes, randomly shooting your people, while the whole time I post on your Blog telling you I know more about your traditions, history, country, city, religion than you do!That any complaint you express against my troops defines you as a lover of the old regime! After all doesn't everyone love the compassion, love and humility of our knights in white satin!

6/08/2005 07:29:00 PM

 
Blogger strykerdad said...

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6/08/2005 08:01:00 PM

 
Blogger John said...

Sykdad, I'm not sure I would derive any degree of satisfaction in, "I actually have two children serving in N Iraq--a daughter and a son". I too have raised children. I would honestly say that if they ever participated in such a fradulent excuse for a war, brought on by such an obviously corrupt and dishonest regime such as the one led by your Bush, I would feel an ultimate sense of sadness and rage. Teach them the value of defending their family, protecting their country, protecting its continued existence but never presume to exploit others.Invade and impose themselves on a country they knew nothing about. All under the guile of your political spinmasters who brought a whole new meaning to the word corrupt! They have taken monetary advantage from Nazi germany (grandad), saudia arabia (dad) and now iraq!

Yet I don't for a minute find any confusion for your zeal now they're there. perhaps confusion over why you'd let them go! this is not a war of heroes or martyrs. its a war of destruction and unnecessary death! there's no satisfactory resolution here until the occupier leaves. hopefully your children will come home to you safe!

6/08/2005 08:09:00 PM

 
Blogger Moron99 said...

"Well now Moron as refreshingly honest as this comment may appear to be on the surface, " John, I don't think anybody knows what went on in Iraq during Saddam's time very far beyond their family and community." It would appear to be disingenuous at best! I would guess what you meant by nobody knowing would only apply to Iraqis themselves! People such as TruthTeller. Whereas seuthsayers such as yourself and SODAD would proclaim an intimacy of knowledge concerning Iraqi history, its people, religious custom, political leaders and dictators that is worthy of a postdoctorate dissertation."

John, it means everybody. Most especially people like you. You find resonance with a 20% segment of the population and carry it forward as what is right for all 100%. Iraq is for all Iraqi's to share, help, and protect each other. It is not for 20% to enforce their will upon the other 80%. Such an arrangement will yield an endless cycle of war and oppression. And no, that has nothing to do with Iraq. It's human nature and the history of mankind.

Some people say that Iraq has been at war for 5500 years. Maybe it's time for them to try something new.

Link

6/08/2005 09:16:00 PM

 
Blogger IRAQ said...

Strykerdad
lets ask TT about his opinion

is Mosul a Kurdish city?

was it a Kurdish city at any time in history?

when the Kurdish start living in Mosul?

where is the nearst Kudrish city from Mosul?

I know that his cridibilty is not very good with you but it will be another voice, and you could do something better which is asking another Iraqi blogger with very good cridibility which is Zeyad at healing Iraq blog he used to post very nice and accurate history posts and he could give you the truth that you could not accept from me or TT and don't believe all what you read on line most of it had porposus to change the truth and with time others will depend on him as a source and then the truth will be lost

his email is: zeyad_w@hotmail.com

6/08/2005 10:45:00 PM

 
Blogger programmer craig said...

John, your opinions are irrelevant. Why do you keep posting them? You are not Iraqi and you are not American, yet you insist on lecturing people who are directly involved with what's going on in Iraq. I don't really much like some of the comments Strykerdad makes, but people like you make me so mad that I automatically take his side. Is that what you are trying to do? Be *so* offensive to Americans that they oppose your positions on general principals? Because that's exactly what you are doing.

Strykerdad, I believe the hope for the Iraqi constitution is that Iraq will be divided into at least 3 semi-autonomous regions - Kurdish, Sunni, and Shia - with a loos federal government. Much like the United States, with our 50 state governments and 1 national government. There are many factions that oppose this - I suspect truthteller may oppose it - but I think it's the only real way for Iraq to emerge with a stable and secure government. I don't really know why anybody would oppose a federal republic for Iraq, it's a very good and fair system of government. I guess maybe the people who oppose it don't want "good and fair" - or democracy either, for that matter.

6/08/2005 11:59:00 PM

 
Blogger waldschrat said...

strykerdad -
For somebody operating under a blind pseudonym you have a lot of gall suggesting that I am "hiding". If you want to address me via comments in somebody elses blog, do it in my blog, not Truth Teller's. Better yet, start your own legitimate blog rather than creating a blind user ID at blogspot for the sole purpose of littering other people's blogs with your opinions.

6/09/2005 03:20:00 AM

 
Blogger waldschrat said...

strykerdad -
Truth Teller has made it perfectly clear along the way that he considers Mosul to be multicultural. You seem to be hounding him to deed the city over to the Kurds or something. However, Kurdistan is multicultural too. You seem to be beating a dead horse.

6/09/2005 03:33:00 AM

 
Blogger strykerdad said...

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6/09/2005 08:07:00 AM

 
Blogger Simko said...

I have to tell the truth, which is that i have never been to mosul, mainly due to the fact that the people currently attempting to murder coalition troops and honest hard working citizens now would have executed me previously under the guises of the Iraqi justice system. But i would like to say that i have always considered musil to be at least in part a kurdish city and that this is borne out by numerous historical records (even marco polo states in his medievel travel book that mosul has a substantial Kurdish presecene) Also the fact that one side of the city (Northern Side) is homogenously Kurdish indicates that this part of the city is still kurdish and kurdistani

6/09/2005 11:16:00 AM

 
Blogger Moron99 said...

Perhaps in the trials of Saddam the truth will come out. In the meantime, if you compare the current map with historic maps of the ottoman empire and turkomania you can see that the areas surrounding Mosul and Karkuk are two deep depressions that did not exist in previous maps. In historic maps, the southern borders were smoother and continuous. Such changes in borders would seem to indicate a substantial shift in population. Since previous borders remained relatively constant for millenia, then it seems very probable that there was a large disaster of some sort that befell the indigenous people.

6/09/2005 11:47:00 AM

 
Blogger Truth teller said...

Iraq

I like your name, it reflects how patriot you are.

Honstly I was hesitated to answer your questions. But for the knowledge of the readers and to cut the way infront of those who want to implant a conflict between the Kurd an darab in Moaul as they did between the Sunni and Sheei, I will respond to.

"is Mosul a Kurdish city? was it a Kurdish city at any time in history?"
No and never was. At least for the last 5000 years.

"when the Kurdish start living in Mosul?"
I dont know the date exactly, but lately when there were a conflict between the Kurds them selfes, some with the Iraqi government and others with the rebellion.

"where is the nearst Kudrish city from Mosul?"
As you say the nearest Kurdish city is Shaikhan which is about 50km not 20 north of Mosul.

For those who believe in the western media or writing about the substantial Kurdish presecene in mosul, I have to add that, in the past there was a (Governorate of Mosul) which is differ from the present (Governorate of Ninevah).
The Governorate of Mosul involved Duhook, Zakho, Aqra, Shaikhan and some other Kurdish city within its border.
When the Governorate of Ninevah is created, Duhook become a Governorate and its border include the other Kurdish cities.

Simko

"Also the fact that one side of the city (Northern Side) is homogenously Kurdish indicates that this part of the city is still kurdish and kurdistani"
There is no such fact in Mosul. It is better for you to tell the truth of your own. In fact there is a small proportion of Kurd in the north - east part of Mosul. But there number is small and they have a very good relation with the Arab. BTW there wasn't a single event of killing of Kurd in Mosul in the time of Saddam for ethnic reason, simply because all the Kurds in Mosul were faithfull to Iraq as a country.

6/09/2005 11:51:00 AM

 
Blogger waldschrat said...

strykerdad -
"Would 'gall' more accurately describe when one critisizes and second guesses the actions of people who step forward at great personal risk to try to secure the city of Mosul?"

When I got drafted once upon a time they had a "zero defects" suggeston program and each battalion had a quota - they needed a certain number of improvement suggestions every month. I was assigned to fill that requirement and cheerfully wrote the required number of suggestions for an entire freakin battalion. Now you say I shouldn't do that any more?

6/09/2005 12:43:00 PM

 
Blogger strykerdad said...

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6/09/2005 01:57:00 PM

 
Blogger strykerdad said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

6/09/2005 02:23:00 PM

 
Blogger Moron99 said...

"The following quote I took directly from the encylopedia of the orient, the same site from where you have taken photographs posted on your own blog. I honestly do not want be insulting, but how is that there is so much information in reference and history books that directly contradict your assertions? If you honestly believe what you are saying, please help me understand how there can be so much misinformation about Mosul."

SD -
I think we should wait for Saddam's trial. From the way lawyers are positioning themselves and from reports of Saddam's state of mind, I am expecting key people like Aziz to finally tell the scope - or lack of. Regarding Mosul, you would need to find population census reports to reach even semi-valid conclusions. Everything that you have quoted could be consistent with an intentional ethnic clensing campaign, an outbreak of plague, a simple population boom, or a voluntary migration due to economic opportunities. Clearly, the ottomans thought of Mosul as a kurdish city for many centuries - but that doesn't answer the question of how and when the demographics changed.

6/09/2005 02:37:00 PM

 
Blogger Moron99 said...

(strykerdad)

I should also like to add that it really shouldn't matter. The goal is to find peace for every Iraqi. There will never be full justice. The important thing is to heal the wounds saddam's regime inflicted just enough so that all the various factions and tribes can work together as one. Just enough justice to bring them together is probably the perfect amount. Too much "justice" will divide the nation because everybody sufferred one way or another.

6/09/2005 02:41:00 PM

 
Blogger IRAQ said...

Strykerdad
I was amused as you when I read that in encyclopedia, but as I said before, that if a biased source start circulating around some misleading information the truth will be lost very fast when others will tack him as a credible source.

As about Marco Polo (how dare are you to put him as a prove??) he said in his book that a savage race lives in the mountains near Mosul and that race is famous for it's brutal killing of travelers in that area (I will not name that race)

6/09/2005 06:47:00 PM

 
Blogger John said...

This is truly a gem, programmer craig, I'm sure even Moron would appreciate the irony of this comment: John, your opinions are irrelevant. Why do you keep posting them? You are not Iraqi and you are not American, yet you insist on lecturing people who are directly involved with what's going on in Iraq.

I suppose the presumption here is, sorry if I've misinterpreted, if you're not directly involved, ie the occupier or the occupied the relevancy of your comment is suspect. My belief is, programmer, that the true power behind concluding this war is America's homeland and world opinion.We brought you home from South East Asia, perhaps two million deaths too late but you still came home!

As much as polls are subject to debate, it was extremely encouraging to hear that since their governments declaration of war, Americans now feel they are less safe than before the invasion and are increasingly skeptical that the war was worth over 1600 American lives and countless thousands of permanently disabling injuries. Also the majority of Americans felt the defeat and arrest of sadamm should have brought closure to the hostilities and the troops should have been returning home soon afterwards!

I'm not sure America ever expected to lose more troops in the afrermath of the war, after Bush declared Mission Accomplished than they did in the initial days of the occupation!

Now you can all procrastinate about how iraq will eventually run its course, what direction America should lead Iraq into next. But we all know Americans are not particularily expert at this phase. Their democratization efforts in South Vietnam were at best fradulent and didn't pass the test of time. My guess is whatever government and constitution they eventually prop up in Iraq will only retain validity for as long as the occupier decides to stay. Some pentagon clones and military fools have placed this estimate in terms of years.

A tragic sentence for more americans and undeserving Iraqi civilians! What to do about Mosul eh sykdad! Your google searches have made you almost as enlightened as moron. Good work. Keep up the research and provide us with the next onslaught of platitudes. None the less cold comfort for grieving American and Iraqi families!

6/09/2005 07:27:00 PM

 
Blogger Moron99 said...

John,

Read the papers dude. The EU just jumped on board. Which means that in their esteemed opinion it is now politcally expedient and self-serving for them to start pretending like they were always in support, but had some minor reservations. So which "we" are you including yourself with? It is a rapidly shrinking "we".

By the way - what the opinion polls are really reflecting is a growing sentiment about the mideast - people are starting to shake their heads, sigh, and mutter "fucking arabs, they aren't worth the effort. all they want to do is blow each other up and kill people." Maybe that's the intended result? Make people just not care how many arabs kill each other? I don't think it's a victory for anybody. It's sad that you find comfort in it.

6/09/2005 07:45:00 PM

 
Blogger waldschrat said...

strykerdad -

Mosul/Ninevah is one giant archeological site. Iraq invented irrigation, and Mosul is surrounded by farms that seem to depend on it if I read the satelite photos right. The environmental impact report on a trench in that environment would run something like a thousand pages if it were done in the USA. In Iraq it can be done by somebody driving a tank and disinclined to take no for an answer. The alternatives to a ditch would be an elacronic surveilance network, a fence with tamperproof sensors, and a zillion other things.

I have no real idea what these terse reports of plans to build a ditch that will stop cars really translate into on the ground in the real world. The US forest service blocks logging roads in the sierra with a ditch and a berm no more than 3 feet deep or so, and that will stop hunters and campers if they can't go around it, but the walls of Ninevah were like you see in Truth Teller's photos were penetrated by Iraqis more than 2 thousand years ago and the whole city was killed off. It takes a LOT to stop determined Iraqis, and a ditch that might do it would have to be pretty darn deep and wide.

Beyond these obvious objections, a ditch would be a static defense with all the legendary disadvantages of things like the Maginot Line.

We shall see what we shall see. I just have to say that talk of massive excavations in the area of Mosul without a really concientious review by archeologists is a nightmare on the face of it, and I've heard nothing of archeologists approving the project.

6/09/2005 09:01:00 PM

 
Blogger strykerdad said...

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6/09/2005 09:01:00 PM

 
Blogger strykerdad said...

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6/09/2005 09:19:00 PM

 
Blogger IRAQ said...

guys
look at this map

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/middle_east_and_asia/iraq_north_g4b_89.jpg

in the dark brown area (north east and east of Mosul)is where the Kurdish ever lives and from their nature they love to live in the mountains and these are the mountains, in between (the mountains and Mosul) are the historically Ninavah valley and it is still scattered with Assyrian and Chaldean villeges and every body knows that they are living there for a long long long time.

what you read ONLINE is not the truth on the GROUND

6/09/2005 09:51:00 PM

 
Blogger IRAQ said...

if you looked at the map and you will see a small dot and a the number 1168, few inches north of Mosul, there is the village where I was born, so to hell with your online truth. becouse it is anything else but not the truth, come to Mosul and see yourself,

or yaaa just ask your son and daughter!!

6/09/2005 10:01:00 PM

 
Blogger strykerdad said...

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6/09/2005 10:42:00 PM

 
Blogger waldschrat said...

strykerdad -
"...Wouldn't take that big of a ditch to slow them down."

Yeah, maybe, but did you ever hear of a guy named Evel Knievel? And what are the airborne TV drones going to do to differentiate between people hunting for antiquities in the trench and others mingling with them carrying backbacks full of C4, as the jihadi version of Eval Knievel leaps over all of em, his used car painted in gaudy colors and adorned with slogans like "Buy More Saudi Oil!"?

We shall see what we shall see.

6/10/2005 02:43:00 AM

 
Blogger strykerdad said...

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6/10/2005 08:15:00 AM

 
Blogger strykerdad said...

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6/10/2005 08:25:00 AM

 
Blogger Simko said...

Truth teller you say that not a single Kurd was killed in mosul in the itme of soddom becasue kurds wre faithful toIraq does that mean that you consider the death of the other 182,000 kurds (mainly women and children) to have been because of unfaithfullness. The baath party is dead and saddam lounges in his y-fronts let it go!

6/10/2005 08:53:00 AM

 
Blogger IRAQ said...

Strykerdad
send me an email and I will give more details, click on my name and on my profile you could find an email

6/10/2005 08:57:00 AM

 
Blogger strykerdad said...

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6/10/2005 09:32:00 AM

 
Blogger Truth teller said...

simko

don't understand me wrong. what I meant is that the Kurd in Mosul are with the line of the Iraqi government during Saddam time and befor that.

"does that mean that you consider the death of the other 182,000 kurds (mainly women and children) to have been because of unfaithfullness."

I don't mean that, but they were in a war time taking the side of the enemy!! That is a fact isn't it ?

6/10/2005 10:25:00 AM

 
Blogger Moron99 said...

We are being told that saddam pursued ethnic clensing in order to clear kurds from oil fields. We are told that the Kurds were forced out of their ancestral homelands with no voice in the decision. They either abandoned the land of their ancestors or baathi would kill them. We are told that saddam's regime did not allow the people to lobby the government and gave them no chance to redress their grievances through dialogue. For them, the choice was give up the land of your ancestors, fight, or die. If this is true, then perhaps "the enemy" was on the right side of justice. Let us hope that Saddam's trial brings the truth out for all to see. Then we will all know which parts of what we have been told are true and which parts are false.

Either way, I do not think you are threatened in Mosul. Democracy is run like a marketplace. Each group has their own vegetables to buy and sell. They all haggle and argue and bargain amoungst themselves. Nobody is forced to buy anything, but nobody wishes to go home empty-handed. Each politician tries to get the best deal that he can for the people he serves. Nobody gets everything they want but everybody gets a portion of what they want. The Kurds will probably want back the lands (that saddam carved out) to the east more than the trade routes of Mosul. The most probable compromise that these rug merchants (politicans) finally agree upon probably won't affect you or your family - no matter what the saddam trials say.

6/10/2005 11:03:00 AM

 
Blogger strykerdad said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

6/10/2005 11:21:00 AM

 
Blogger Truth teller said...

moron

" We are being told that saddam pursued ethnic clensing in order to clear kurds from oil fields.We are told that the Kurds were forced out of their ancestral homelands with no voice in the decision. They either abandoned the land of their ancestors or baathi would kill them. We are told that saddam's regime did not allow the people to lobby the government and gave them no chance to redress their grievances through dialogue. For them, the choice was give up the land of your ancestors, fight, or die."

I don't want to defend Saddam, but this is not true. The problem of the Kurd with the Iraqi government dated to many years befor Saddam, and may be before he born. From the time of Mulla Mustafa al Barzany, the fahter of Massood al Barzany, when there was even no oil discovered in Iraq yet.

"If this is true, then perhaps "the enemy" was on the right side of justice."
Darling the enemy was Iran, the Iraqi army had very bad time in fighting even with the help he recieved from ....!!.
The insurgents Kurds take the side of Iran and embarrassede the Iraqi army.

6/10/2005 11:53:00 AM

 
Blogger IRAQ said...

Strykerdad

I think that continuing arguments about Saddam is kind out of date right now and we can only work on the future, the past comments the argument was that you cannot give somebody what he never had because he was oppressed by Saddam.

Saddam was a brutal dictator, he violated every right humans can lest want, and killed hundreds of thousands of Innocent Iraqis that's something I cannot deny and argue otherwise, but now we have a duty to built a new Iraq, that is free of all the past and offer to all it's citizens equal rights, freedom and duties.

For that it will not be a good start if we start dividing it into Kurdish and Sunni and Shiia areas, there must be just ONE Iraq.

As for US soldiers. when they were in my village they were going around with no weapons or body armor and play soccer with local youths, visit families and eat with them and even attend Sunday mass, they were later withdrawn to other areas.

6/10/2005 12:16:00 PM

 
Blogger Truth teller said...

strykerdad

" TT, a final attempt to see if you are a reasonable honest man as I want to believe you are:"

I am not so interesting in your opinion about me. But I will answer you.

At the time of Saddam many Iraqis fled from Iraq as a result of the tyranny of Saddam, and the socio-economic condition of the whole people during the sanction.
Those people who fled and asked residency as political refugees. In order to be regarded as such the have to show them selfes as being threatened, maltreated and their land stolen. All the world, including most Iraqis are willing to believe them. I thing the media, found a rich source of news from those refugees and fabricated a lot of stories about them.
This ducument you refer to, is propably one of those fabricated facts to show how the Kurds were suffer from Saddam. I have to say they really suffer, but the cause of their suffering is not the cleansing against the Kurd. But as the result of the war against a raising militias during a war time. and before the Iraq-Iran war, they were regarded as revolutionists.

"The Iran-Iraq war provided the crucial element with which Baghdad could cover-up its opportunity to bring to a climax its long-standing efforts to bring the Kurds to heel. The Iraqi regime's anti-Kurdish drive dates back to more than fifteen years, well before the outbreak of that war"

Again and again, it is not agaist the Kurd, it was against part of the Kurd who chose the revolution against Bagdad. The other Kurds live in peace and even joined the the army as volunteers to extinguish thet revolt.
The problem is too old, not 15 years before the war but dated from the time Iraq got its freedom, after the WW1.

6/10/2005 12:22:00 PM

 
Blogger strykerdad said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

6/10/2005 01:04:00 PM

 
Blogger Moron99 said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

6/10/2005 01:21:00 PM

 
Blogger Moron99 said...

TT, if I could ask you any question - and I hope that you will answer -
it would be about the insurgents. The big roadblock towards democracy
is obviously insurgents. US troops can't come home until there is some
form of a non-dictator government. I guess we have a shared interest.

The question would be:
Which of the following do you think is a more accurate description -
a) the insurgents are blocking most common Sunni from joining with government
b) most common sunni do not want to participate with the government


If most common sunni do not want to participate with the government, then what guarantees do you think they would want to see in the constitution? (so that it would be acceptable to them)

6/10/2005 01:54:00 PM

 
Blogger IRAQ said...

Strykerdad
I ask you again please email me so I can send you something that I think will clear everything.

6/10/2005 02:57:00 PM

 
Blogger strykerdad said...

Iraq
I have done as you requested, thank you.

6/10/2005 03:27:00 PM

 
Blogger waldschrat said...

strykerdad - it might help if you consider the history of Kurds in Turkey and compare that to events in Iraq. Kurdish nationalism has provoked the Turks as well as the Iraqis from time to time, sort of like the secession of the C.S.A. (and various indian uprisings) provoked them there Yankees. I have the impression that Kurds are nice folks and sweet as can be except when they get a little off their feed and start feeling cranky about all the hard times "Kurdistan" (whatever/wherever that is) has suffered and decide to do something about it. Certainy everything I've read suggests it's much safer to be an American in Kurdish territory than most of the rest of Iraq. I suspect that that has a lot to do with U.S. enforcement of the northern "no fly zone" and removal of Saddam, and the fact that local government and authority on Kurdish territory did not break down or get removed like it did in the rest of the country when Iraq was de-Saddamized.

6/11/2005 01:43:00 AM

 
Blogger strykerdad said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

6/11/2005 09:17:00 AM

 
Blogger waldschrat said...

strykerdad -
I have a hard time understanding a lot of it too. I think America is the exception in the world in having a single country of hundreds of millions of people who all speak the same language. By the law, if you were born here you belong here. America has been called the "great melting pot", and these things make the American experience of citizenship and national loyalty a bit different from other places, I think. My limited experience with Europeans suggests that language differences and other cultural "tags" make it more common for folks living and born in one country to consider themselves of a different nationality. The same thing seems to go everyplace outside the U.S.

I think as time goes along and travel and communication become even quicker and easier the world will tend to become one giant "melting pot" where people understand and respect each other more. At least I hope so.

6/11/2005 01:54:00 PM

 
Blogger Simko said...

"they were in a war time taking the side of the enemy!! That is a fact isn't it ?"

I dont see how thousands of children could have been taking anyones side in any war...typical arab mentality

6/11/2005 05:14:00 PM

 
Blogger Moron99 said...

Let us all hope that ten years from now the same thing isn't being said about the sunni.

You idiots need to get on the committee and demand constitutional protections while the sheets of paper are still blank.

6/11/2005 08:06:00 PM

 
Blogger waldschrat said...

"Typical Arab mentality" is a dangerous oversimplification, just as saying "Typical Jewish mentality" in a german accent is a dangerous oversimplification. It ignores the differences between people of a race, implies that the term "Arab" may be applied to millions of very different people, and allows one to condemn one "race" as less worthy or more worthy. If a person thinks in terms of racial charactics long enough and often enough he forgets the essential fact that groups are not homogeneous. It's bad, dangerous logic, a form of prejudicial thinking promoted by tyrants and dictators in their rhetoric. I do it myself sometimes when someone angers me, but I try not to believe myself when I do, I try to remind myself that race is a fiction.

End of sermon.

6/11/2005 09:55:00 PM

 
Blogger strykerdad said...

W and all others interested. The foolowing is a link to a terrific blog by an imbedded journalist with US forces in Mosul and describes the efforts there as well as any I've read.

http://www.michaelyon.blogspot.com/

6/12/2005 10:55:00 AM

 
Blogger John said...

Sykdad, time to wean yourself off terrific blogs, you sound more like a sorry fool everytime you post! Better to get your facts from Junior and his positive interactions with Kurdish youth, the soccer games and invites for tea! Michael Yon is imbedded with American troops, anyone with a true opinion would most likely be arrested!

You know its fine to be naieve but when you become a zealot at the same time you're little more than a Rastafarian proclaiming the mystic powers of hemp! Ganja, is used for religious purposes for Rastafarians. The use of this herb is extensive among the Rastas not only for spiritual purposes as in their Nyabingi celebration, but also for medicinal purposes. The dreadlocks on a Rasta's head are symbolic of the Lion of Judah! I think you would do better as a Rasta dad, blow as much ganja as possible and you'll forget everthing you thought you knew about iraq! And to tell you the truth, you'd be far cuter with dreadlocks!

6/12/2005 05:24:00 PM

 
Blogger strykerdad said...

Yawn, why am I not surprised that you are an advocate for mind altering substances?

6/13/2005 10:34:00 AM

 
Blogger waldschrat said...

strykerdad (and others) - I agree that Michael Yon's blog (http://www.michaelyon.blogspot.com/) is good. He writes well, he provides a valuable perspective, and he seems to like Iraqis and want the best for the country.

Recently he featured a post from free writer (http://afreewriter.blogspot.com/), another Mosul blogger. Freewriter has some interesting ideas for projects including a proposal for providing computer training for some kids in Mosul for which he is trying to attract donations. I tried donating but discovered that the money went to a fellow in Michigan (Tom Villars, http://iraqiblogtechsupport.blogspot.com/) who collects money for Iraqi bloggers and forwards it to Iraq. This indirect method of moving money is apparently necessary due to restrictions on sending money to Iraq ( more on this at http://www.export.gov/iraq/pdf/payments_in_iraq.pdf and at http://www.ups.com/ga/CountryRegs?loc=en_US ), presumably inended to foil terrorist support from overseas. These restrictions on moving money are a major inconvenience to anybody interested in supporting Iraqi reconstruction projects or investing in Iraq's "rebirth" (some of the very best overseas investments are made when things look darkest!).

Clearly it would be better for Iraq if there was some way to ensure that overseas money could be easily applied for positive purposes in Iraq. This would require allowing some sort of approved channels through which money could transmitted (presumably through banks, which are very good at knowing where money comes from and goes to) and some sort of organized mechanism for verifying that Iraqi recipients of funds were honest folk to ensure the money didn't go for buying bombs and bullets. One possible agency in Mosul which might serve that latter purpose is the "Nineveh Business Center" ( http://www.ninevehbusinesscenter.org/ ) which seems to be some sort of fledgling government-sanctioned operation in Mosul.

Perhaps Truth Teller can call up the number of the Nineveveh Business Center in Mosul ( 813-973 according to their web page) and ask them whether they really exist and why they have not answered my email.

BTW, freewiter told me via email that he had at least some luck in attracting assistance for the Mosul Tallasemia Society via his blog. I commend him for using his blog for positive purposes to try to help Iraq!

Wouldn't it be nifty if all the bloggers from Mosul could sit down for tea and talk about how to use their blogs to help facilitate charitable grants and investments for Iraq!?

6/14/2005 02:37:00 AM

 
Blogger waldschrat said...

John - how do you know strykerdad doesn't have dreadlocks? A Ponca indian I knew in the Army once upon a time (1970) stood a head taller than any other man in the unit and would show up for morning formations with bloodshot eyes and a feather in his hair instead of the required helmet. He told stories of shooting tracer bullets into the sky at night in Viet Nam just to watch the pretty lights and stockpiling aluminum arrows in a shed behind the house back in Ponca City for use when the indians took back the country. Underneath his laid-back, nonconformist exterior he was smart as a whip and he taught me to respect indians and not assume I knew what they would do next. His name was Pascal LeClair and I've often wondered what became of him.

Michael Yon is indeed imbedded, but he has also reported on excursions in the Dohuk area north of Mosul where he went without military escort, and his reports provide a very valuable insight into the differences between insurgent beset areas and areas living largely in peace. His description of the newsfeed process by which real events are reported and consolidared into the mindless, soulless "who killed who how where" reports that the main stream media continually spews was terrific. Don't oversimplify and don't assume.

6/14/2005 03:16:00 AM

 
Blogger waldschrat said...

More info on the great Mosul moat: link

6/16/2005 03:15:00 AM

 
Blogger waldschrat said...

Truth Tller -

Can you tell us if there is any indication that the "great moat of Mosul" was ever actually dug? I am curious what effect it might have on traffic and whether it will truly help Mosul. Th trench was supposed to be ready in "a couple of weeks" and this amount of time has now passed. Have you seen this ditch?

6/23/2005 03:30:00 PM

 
Blogger Truth teller said...

waldschrat

I have no Idea if it is actually dug or not. But the whole idea looked to be very difficult, 55km long, 3m width and 3m depth, is not an easy thing by the present facilities. (A small hole in a main street from an explosion takes several weaks to be repaired.)
I think they don't have the ability to do it in the specified time.

6/25/2005 06:47:00 AM

 

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